Sunday, December 28, 2008

Black Legion observed

So I've been playing a number of different builds using Abaddon and all the cults recently, usually fully mechanized in Rhinos with some terminators, obliterators, and demons in the mix. After a couple tournaments and various friendly games, I'm still moving things around. These are some observations of the different units in the army, by themselves and in the context of the rest of the force:

Abaddon and Slaanesh Terminators - After two games in a tournament yesterday where Abby was barely able to kill half a squad before dying (even with a full bodyguard), I'm putting the brakes on how I use the big guy. Here's what typically happens when I deep strike him with my slaanesh terminators into battle: my opponent fires everything they have at his unit, using heavy weapons as well as disembarked special weapons (plas/melta), wipes out the terminators, wounds Abaddon once or twice, and charges in with assault troops or I charge him in the next turn. Abaddon kills maybe half a squad with Drachnyen, they break, he can't sweeping advance, and he's left out in the open all over again, squish. That's if he doesn't kill himself with his own demon weapon. And it hasn't happened yet, but it's quite possible that the terminators break from all the shooting wounds in some game and Abaddon has to go with them. I contemplated putting them all in a land raider, and I still might try that, but I'd be taking away points from somewhere else. Not being able to do a sweeping advance means a lot more these days, when the loser breaks so often due to the negative Ld modifiers. I think I'm going to ditch them for a while.

Thousand Sons - These guys seem to work just fine without their own rhino, and do best in the largest squad possible (9 + sorceror). I gave up on bolt of change and gave my sorceror doombolt to streamline their usage and add more dakka. Despite the sorceror's force weapon, they can't stand up to much assault and so I'm thinking of pairing them with Abaddon and using them to protect home objectives.

Berzerkers - As long as the enemy doesn't get too many shots into this squad, these guys can fuck shit up pretty bad. I decided against giving them plasma pistols, since furious charge and the champion's power fist is usually good enough anti-tank for them, and I don't want any more pointless wounds on the unit than is absolutely necessary. These guys would also probably do better in a land raider than a rhino.

Noisemarines - I'm going to try dropping their rhino and using these guys as a solid anti-infantry firebase, just like I'm starting to do with the thousand sons. They're better in assault than the thousand sons, but could probably use an anchor like Abaddon or another character. So now I need like 7 or 8 sonic blasters. Haven't decided whether to give them a blastmaster or not or whether to keep the champion's doom siren.

Plaguemarines - If they can get on an objective in cover, they can usually hold out against a lot of shooting and assault. I want to try increasing their squad size from 8 to 10 just to make them that much more annoying. A rhino would still be useful for them to get their meltaguns into proper range of land raiders and such.

Obliterators - Having these guys in 3 separate units of 1, and therefore able to target 3 different units, is nice but a little bit of a liability in kill points missions (especially in custom missions when non-troop units are worth more KP). I'm still getting the hang of when I should deep strike them and when they should start on the board. They do well when they get to come in at close range and blast land raiders or other vehicles with melta.

Flying Lash Prince/Greater Demon - T5 and a 3+/5+ save means the demon prince never lasts very long. He's not so special in assault, either, compared to some other monsters out there. I'm starting to like the cheaper greater demon better with T6 and a 4+ invulnerable.

Lesser Demons - I think I'm over these dudes for a while. They are annoying for an enemy but always seem to lose combat and then suffer even more wounds from being fearless.

So here's a possible future list, with all these things in mind:

Greater Demon
Sorceror - mark of slaanesh, lash of submission, bike
10 Berzerkers - champion with power weapon, rhino with extra armor
10 Plaguemarines - champion with power fist, rhino with extra armor
10 Thousand Sons - sorceror with doombolt
10 Noisemarines - champion with doom siren, power weapon, 8 sonic blasters, blastmaster
3 Obliterators

Alternatively I could swap out the sorceror for a defiler.


Bushido Red Panda said...

Here's my list:

10 Berserkers, Champion w/ PW
10 Plague Marines, Champion w/ PF, Icon, 2x meltagun, rhino, extra armor
10 Thousand Sons, Doombolt, Icon
8 Noise Marines, Champion, PW, 8 Sonic Blasters
Defiler, all CCW
Land Raider, Posession
3x Obliterators

I think it needs a defiler to be a true Black Legion army :)

CrusherJoe said...

A few thoughts...

Berzerkers and Land Raiders go hand in hand. Move 12", 2" disembark and 6" assault = 20" threat range from some of the best CC specialists in the game. You don't need me to tell you that, though. :) Every time I've used 'zerkers I've run them in a LR and every time it's paid off.

Consider some Khornate terminators with combi-meltas and chainfists for anti-tank. Deep strike 'em in off an icon and go to work. Chainfists are like tank can-openers, and that extra attack from the MoK is added insurance. If there are a couple of tanks close enough, go ahead and split your assault between them. One round = two dead tanks if you can pull it off.

I've had the opposite experience with daemon prince vs. greater daemon. Losing a champ and having to deep strike the GD has made for some rough going at times. Oh, sure, in CC he's a monster but put the MoT on the DP for 3+/4++ and you're in business. Add in doombolt and warp time (I think it's called) and your DP is a one-model roving rape gang. YMMV, of course, but that's what's worked for me.

The only cult troops I use are Berzerkers, so I can't really comment there, though I completely understand why you have what you have and how you're using them. I've just found that sticking with basic CSMs gives me the extra points to afford a few other things, like a vindicator and a defiler (which I'm almost done painting, and am anxious to try out).

Black Matt said...

a little comment about LASH. I know there are a million and one people who will stand on their soap box and rage against it! But, if you are willing to use it, and I most absolutely am, you might as well make the most of it. If you take a bare bones lash sorcerer and put him in a rhino, you will not only save points from the daemon prince but you will have a weapon that the opposition cannot see. You can fire out the top of a rhino if you move six inches but the sorcerer cannot be targeted back. If you want the nut you have to crack the shell, and with as tough as vehicles are now, well you know! Its much better than a daemon prince because the daemon prince is subject to lash and any other line of site shooting!

Anonymous said...

I would drop the lash guy for a defiler which is good at shooting and assault. If your Noise Marines are not in a Rhino then doom siren is a waste. He is not garenteed to get to use it in a game like when he rushes the enemy.

You list looks good with less Rhinos and less Kill Points. You always seem to come up with solid armies!

I would also take the PF off the Nurgle Champ. That way he is cheap icon for your Greater Daemon. Otherwise, who else will it come off of?


bullymike said...

All good comments, thanks. I think I'm going to hold off on the land raider and defiler for a bit and play a few more games with this list. i will drop the doom siren and just give the champ a sonic blaster for the time being, it will free up some points to give personal icons back to the squads.

the rhino sorceror is an awesome idea, i may try that eventually and spend his bike's 30 points elsewhere.

agreed the flying tzeentch DP is dope, though I might just give him warptime to save points, also the flying nurgle DP has its strengths (or toughness rather) even without a psychic power.